All about hugs at meetings.
posted by sostulsa | 7:35 PM
About Me
- Name: sostulsa
- Location: Tulsa, Oklahoma, United States
Secular Organizations for Sobriety (or Save Our Selves) is dedicated to providing a path to drug abstinence, an alternative to those paths depending on supernatural or religious beliefs. SOS was founded to provide a neutral ground where alcoholics and addicts can safely explore a secular path to recovery. We respect recovery in any form, no matter which path achieves it. Our focus is on the priority of abstaining from all mind-altering drugs.
14 Comments:
the following emails have been received recently on the topic of hugging before or after sos meetings...
1-3-07
dear sos,
from paul
I would like to announce to the group that the hugging
at the meetings makes me very uncomfortable and I find
it very intrusive. I have skipped meetings because of
this. I still love the meetings and will continue to
attend, but I ask that you please try to respect my
boundaries and make things more comfortable for me.
There is nothing wrong with a handshake. Thank you. -Paul.
thanks for the feedback, paul... i'm sure i've been one of the most intrusive & will comply... also, i give you my respect for asserting yourself so appropriately... also, i'm quite sure you know i do not want anyone to skip meetings
LH
1-3-07
dear sos,
more on hugging by ellie f.
I'm glad to see Paul's objection to the hugging. This is THE reason I don't come to meetings. I'm not against hugging and I hug people for whom I feel affection and with whom I feel safe but I don't like hugging total strangers and I don't like the REQUIREMENT that I participate in hugging. I also don't want to be in a situation where everyone else is hugging and I'm the wet blanket. I think it's really an unfortunate ritual for SOS to have.
well put again, ellie...
clearly some of us like to hug... what i'm guilty of, however, is not respecting others enough to ask "do you hug?" before madly approaching with arms outstreched... i shall be much more careful about this in the future... this is merely a carry-over habit from na... we may need to modify our closing where we say, "let's close the meeting with 'hugs and no drugs'"
thanks to both you and paul for the feedback
dear sos,
from tommy m.
I thought you already said: "And hugs where appropriate"... at the end of the meetings!!
Hell, if you don't want to be hugged, just don't make yourself available.. cross your arms!
My Mother doesn't let me hug her.. (and never has)...it's simple enough!!
It stems from childhood sexual abuse from a step-dad.. I took it personal all my life, but it's
not, it's her problem, not mine!! That was part of (the root) of my drinking problem, and I
didn't discover it until, I went through some therapy!! Looking at hundreds of my problems!
So.. this sudden discussion of "Hugging".. could be a "eye-opener" to those who are
willing to investigate it.. hugging is not a sexual advance!! I have a pretty good friend who
has recently picked up a 2 year chip, that told me.. "Tommy, you're the first man I ever hugged"
when I gave him his first 30 day chip! I told him then, that hugging sure wont hurt you!!
I can't imagine making a rule about no hugging after meetings... people that feel uncomfortable
have the problem they need to address.. however, there are lots of people I don't want to hug!
I just hug the ones that want to be hugged.. and I want to hug!
Yea, it's moron hugs alright.....
from kristopher c.
Hi all,
Haven't talked to you all in a while, been going through some things that I'll elaborate on later, but I did want to weigh in on this. Nowadays, I'm not all that adverse to the hugging bit - it's very common with friends and such - but I still have some reservations when it comes to pure strangers. I remember when I went through Valley Hope in Cushing 12 years ago, they closed the evening group meetings with what they called the "100% Hug-a-thon" where everyone got in a circle and went around hugging each other. THAT really put me off, to the point where I'd duck out of the meeting at the end (along with several others) because of the discomfort factor. One night, however, some guy grabbed me as I was leaving and tried to force me into participating. I looked at him straight in the eye and said "Get your fucking hands off me!" I was ready to punch him if he didn't let go of my arm. That's honestly how uncomfortable I was with it, and I did not appreciate the fact that my wish to exclude myself was not being respected. So to sum it up, if you're okay with it - fine - if you want to exclude yourself, that's fine, too. At least that's my opinion on the matter. Nobody should feel uncomfortable at meetings of any type, which happens too much, IMO. Whether it's the hugging thing or the religion thing inherent in so many AA/NA meetings in this area. The latter is what turned me off AA - I got tired of listening to people "testify" and started to wonder when they were going to pull out the box of snakes. If you want to do that, there's a perfectly good place for it, it's called church - I'm here to talk about recovery, not to attend a Pentacostal revival. But, that's another rant entirely.
One other thing about the hugging that some may not realize is that many in recovery come from a life of sexual abuse, and physical contact is very difficult. This is what many of those who ducked out of the "hug-a-thon" at VH were dealing with. Personally, that wasn't my issue, I just wasn't in to hugging a bunch of strangers. But, I remember one girl breaking down crying afterwards, she thought it was required - myself and others said it wasn't and if anyone tells you otherwise, tell them to go to hell - you'll probably get some flack for not "participating", but the truth is your personal space is just that, and NOBODY has the right to invade it - and really, they are the ones who need to gain understanding. Recovery is not one-size-fits-all - what works for me may not work for you, and vice versa - but if it works, who are we to question why someone's not doing the things we are?
great to hear from you, kristopherit's been a while... keep staying in touch, please...
back to ellie
I really like this as a meeting closing.:
" Let's end the meeting by giving ourselves a hand for being here to support and celebrate each other's sobriety."
I would like to disagree with the person who suggested that not liking to hug is a social dysfunction. Some of us simply have a more formal upbringing than to think it's appropriate to hug everyone whether you know them well or not. I also disagree with the suggestion that not speaking up about not wanting a hug is somehow a social dysfunction. Maybe those of us who don't speak up in that regard simply don't want to hurt the other person's feelings.
larry here again... i realize i am way over my "6 emails per week quota"... i also realize we have probably not heard the last on this tete a tete either...
it may be tedious, but thrashing this out to see what the group thinks on hugs seems very appropriate... to those who groan over conflict, i just suggest you either don't read it or unsubscribe... on the other hand, if i hear an overwhelming set of voices saying "move it to the addictionhelp@sbcglobal.net email group" i will do just that
respectfully, in word and body language,
LH
pam said...
and on hugging pam said...
Dear SOS group,
I figure if we are going to change our closing we should eliminate the part regarding "usually don't pray". I do pray so it really is not an issue with me, it just seems kind of goofy to say that "we usually don't pray as a group at the end of a meeting" unless at times we do. (he he he)
As far as hugging goes, I am sure willing to respect anyones boundries. I myself enjoy my personal space. I remember in the not too distant past at a meeting I extended my hand for a handshake and whoever it was told me something to the likes of " aww, we don't shake hands here, we hug" and gave me a big old hug. I think that was at NA. I have grown to love my hugs from my fellow SOSers as that is basically my home group. (I hope that is okay to say) I certainly hope that anyone would feel comfortable enough to let me know if I am invading their space as I myself have become a hugger - I know in my younger days I wouldn't know what to do if somebody I didn't know came up and outstreched their arms to embrace me as my family was not very demonstritive that way. So with that said, please do not miss our meetings for that reason! Everyone has a right to meeting with other people for recovery and we can all learn from each other.
I am sorry for the long winded reply :o)
Have a good one everybody!!
Pam
No.. Larry this is all just too crazy for me... I can't figure out
what you're doing???? I try to post something on the blog..
all that password and all that other crap.. it's just too much for me!!
I can do without all this crazy arguing anyway.. Tommy
i am relocating duaine's post from elsewhere to this spot on the topic of hugs...
duaine said...
Duaine M said...
Is SOS a New approach to Support Groups?
Should great care be taken to protect SOS from existing Groups or practices that are so ingrained in people who went to and still go to these groups and SOS?
If we allow other groups to dictate that their established practices be atomically be accepted than are we not making SOS a weak and watered down Support Group?
SOS is New and different; or it isn't.
If it is New and Different then everything is up for Debate and we start from New Ground.
Thats some of my thoughts on SOS.
from jeff r.
Hello again,
I have no idea what anyone has yet to say about hugging.
If you don't like the way things are conducted at a meeting YOU ATTEND, then by all means bring it up to the group and reach a consensus about what to do.
If it affects only you then stand up for yourself. In the case of hugging, a simple "I don't want to hug.", is perfectly alright. SOS is all about personal freedom. Unless my freedom conflicts with your freedom, then LOOK OUT!
If you never attend, then it is not an issue. If you claim it is... it is actually just an excuse.
And since this forum started I have heard a BUNCH of excuses and whining about as to why meetings are not attended. Everything from philosophical conflict to "god" to hugs has been cited as a reason to not go to a meeting.
What's next? Horrific hangnails?
Handshakes spread far more germs than a hug. Don't touch me with that either.
Let's just sit on our hands so as to not break into anyone's personal space. Let's keep our mouths shut as to how we acquired any recovery we posses so as to not offend anybody else's beliefs or sense of propriety. A sample meeting may go...
Facilitator- Let's open the meeting - it's an OPEN discussion.
Member #1 - I stayed clean and sober today by the strength of my own will. So can you.
Member #2 - Me too.
Member #3 - Same here.
Member #4 - My life is great but you don't need to know any details as it's personal.
Member #5 - Yes.
Member #6 - It's like you read my mind.
Member #1 - I always knew everything about staying clean and sober, so do you.
Member #2 - I agree.
Member #3 - Oh yeah.
Member #4 - Yeah...control...
Member #5 - Yes.
Member #6 - Totally.
Facilitator - OK if there isn't anything else, let's go our separate ways. If you must share one-on-one with someone after the meeting remember "distance yourself". Physically and philosophically. Don't use and BE CAREFUL not to bump into anyone going out the door. Oh, and by the way if you want to be on our phone list just sign up. Don't worry though, no one will call you. And you would not be compelled to answer even if they did.
As far as SOS not being a spinoff of any other group - DON'T delude yourself. The very concept that fellow recovering addicts/alcoholics could support each other AND help each other stay clean/sober came from another group. EVERY founder of SOS started in another fellowship and like or not it is reflected in the SOS fellowship. They took what they wanted and left out anything they didn't. BUT IT IT NOT NEW. Look at the SOS literature/website/meeting formats and see how much debt is owed to other fellowships. Go ahead call me wrong.
Love ya!
Jeff
p.s. - I was going to sign off "Hugs!" instead of "Love ya!" but I wouldn't want to be
"over-the-top". LOL!
these emails have come in recently (on 1-5-07)
today, kristopher c. added this note...
Hi all,
In my last post about hugging, I alluded a larger issue - most of you
with a good amount of time in recovery probably read between the lines
already. But, in case you didn't, I have been suffering through a
serious setback. Back in September, I started having trouble breathing,
which my father (a retired ER doctor) thought was a respiratory
ailment. After antibiotics and such failed to do anything, he referred
me to a pulmonologist, who upon seeing a chest X-Ray, quickly
determined that I had serious edema (fluid buildup) in my abdomen that
was constricting my lungs. Further testing revealed dangerously low
potassium and protein levels - and serious anemia. Long story short, I
checked into Deaconess Hospital in early October and was given a bit
less than 50/50 chance of pulling through. What worked in my favor was
my youth (well sort of youth, I'm 35), and otherwise decent health. The
root cause were ulcers - ulcers likely caused by, and certainly
exacerbated by, you guessed it - our old friend, Mr. Al Key Hall...
Anyway, they put me back together, but not before finding just about
every place it was possible to stick a tube in and run tests. The past
few months have been rough and difficult to stay sober. For that
reason, I have elected to check back in to Valley Hope. Even though I
have some personal issues with 12-step programs, I know now that
recovery is really not about "programs" that you follow to the letter,
but taking the things that work and using them to succeed. For many
years, I felt you had to do exactly what sponsors or other members said
to do, rather than looking at them as what they really are - suggestions
and advice. I think a large part of why I did that was that
professionally, I am a computer technician and, in many cases, there is
just one right way to accomplish a task in my job - and when you get
into that mindset, you easily fall into a rut of applying that logic to
everything.
I'll cease the babble now - I just wanted to let everyone know what's
going on. I'm not a very religious person, but if you want to pray for
me - I'm fine with that. Hell, I'm even fine with it if you want to
give me a hug sometime.
Best to all,
Kristopher
dave h said...
Larry
The Hug thing is fine with me, Its just when Max pinches my ass I feel a little used..
dave also said...
To reply to the blog you must first have a goggle account...damn it..lol
however, i do not think i have a google acct. (LH)
from jeff r.
Hello again,
I have no idea what anyone has yet to say about hugging.
If you don't like the way things are conducted at a meeting YOU ATTEND, then by all means bring it up to the group and reach a consensus about what to do.
If it affects only you then stand up for yourself. In the case of hugging, a simple "I don't want to hug.", is perfectly alright. SOS is all about personal freedom. Unless my freedom conflicts with your freedom, then LOOK OUT!
If you never attend, then it is not an issue. If you claim it is... it is actually just an excuse.
And since this forum started I have heard a BUNCH of excuses and whining about as to why meetings are not attended. Everything from philosophical conflict to "god" to hugs has been cited as a reason to not go to a meeting.
What's next? Horrific hangnails?
Handshakes spread far more germs than a hug. Don't touch me with that either.
Let's just sit on our hands so as to not break into anyone's personal space. Let's keep our mouths shut as to how we acquired any recovery we posses so as to not offend anybody else's beliefs or sense of propriety. A sample meeting may go...
Facilitator- Let's open the meeting - it's an OPEN discussion.
Member #1 - I stayed clean and sober today by the strength of my own will. So can you.
Member #2 - Me too.
Member #3 - Same here.
Member #4 - My life is great but you don't need to know any details as it's personal.
Member #5 - Yes.
Member #6 - It's like you read my mind.
Member #1 - I always knew everything about staying clean and sober, so do you.
Member #2 - I agree.
Member #3 - Oh yeah.
Member #4 - Yeah...control...
Member #5 - Yes.
Member #6 - Totally.
Facilitator - OK if there isn't anything else, let's go our separate ways. If you must share one-on-one with someone after the meeting remember "distance yourself". Physically and philosophically. Don't use and BE CAREFUL not to bump into anyone going out the door. Oh, and by the way if you want to be on our phone list just sign up. Don't worry though, no one will call you. And you would not be compelled to answer even if they did.
As far as SOS not being a spinoff of any other group - DON'T delude yourself. The very concept that fellow recovering addicts/alcoholics could support each other AND help each other stay clean/sober came from another group. EVERY founder of SOS started in another fellowship and like or not it is reflected in the SOS fellowship. They took what they wanted and left out anything they didn't. BUT IT IT NOT NEW. Look at the SOS literature/website/meeting formats and see how much debt is owed to other fellowships. Go ahead call me wrong.
Love ya!
Jeff
p.s. - I was going to sign off "Hugs!" instead of "Love ya!" but I wouldn't want to be
"over-the-top". LOL!
finally....AAAARRRRGGGGHHHH! OK - I can do this!
another note from jeff r
Hi Brother!
I am having trouble with the "blogger" site, but, I'll figure it out.
Anyway, here are my further comments...
My family didn't hug or show affection to each other, let alone someone "outside". Perhaps, that is why it feels good to reach out to another human being. To touch and be touched.
A handshake says, "you have my word." or "you can trust me." Originally, it said, "I have no weapon.". I have been stabbed in the back during and after a handshake.
A hug says "I care about you." At least while the hug is "in progress".
I prefer the latter.
As far as feelings of not wanting to hug being a "social dysfunction", I can make an argument both ways. I suppose it depends on each individual's reasons.
BUT, subverting your own peace of mind and personal preferences for the sake of "simply don't want to hurt the other person's feelings" is people pleasing / co-dependency / enabling.
And it certainly does NOT make a good reason (THE) reason to not go to a meeting.
Just speak up for yourself. And NOONE will be offended if you don't want a hug.
To use this as an excuse for not going to meetings is ludicrous.
Distance, time involved, feelings, my physical conditions, weather conditions, lack of a vehicle, etc. NEVER kept me from doing what I needed to do to use.
For me, if I don't feel like attending... the thing to say is "Sorry for not attending, I just didn't feel like going to a meeting.". And explain why I didn't IF I wish to.
Love ya!
Jeff
I'll try to figure out the blog problem tonight.
Love ya!
Jeff
here are three recent emails on hugging... ellie ellie fitz
from ellie f.
You know, nobody who has spoken out against having hugs as the ritual
closing here has suggested that people who like to hug are in any way
dysfunctional or has dissed them in any way. And yet the people who defend
hugging are engaged in a lot of put downs toward those who prefer not to
hug. I'm really amazed (to put it mildly) at the sarcasm and the
judgmentalism of the "hugging" contingent here. If someone shared with me a
reason for not going to a meeting I would never dismiss that as "ludicrous".
I would take that person at his or her word. The put-downs are really quite
unnecessary and inconsistent with acceptance and compassion.
Courtesy is not "people-pleasing". And when it's part of the official RITUAL
of a meeting ("hugs not drugs") that the meeting close with hugs it is very
awkward to express a preference for no hugs. After all, the group has just
been INSTRUCTED to hug. The one SOS meeting I attended didn't just end with
a few hugs. EVERYBODY hugged everybody else. Yes, I participated. There is
such a thing as being a GOOD SPORT. That is not people-pleasing. One way of
looking at that is that it is not calling undue attention to oneself or
being "terminally unique". It's something I tolerated but did not like. I
haven't been back. I make no apology for it. I would have were it not for
the hugs. I experience that much unwelcome physical contact as quite
overwhelming.
I am not opposed to hugging across the board. I hug loved ones and close
friends. But hugging is not something I consider to be appropriate between
strangers or mere acquaintances. Some of us have a more reserved upbringing
than that and spare me the judgments about it, please.
One of the things that bothers me a lot about the recovery community is the
pressure to conform to a certain "recovery culture". In AA that involves
engaging in a certain kind of "God-talk" and heaven forbid that you have a
different theology than the prevailing AA take on God. I left AA after six
years of trying to fit in and maintain my personal integrity at the same
time. The pressure to accept and adhere to a particular take on God became
just too much.
Now here is SOS throwing around judgments about people who dislike hugging
as the ritual closing for a meeting. I don't appreciate being labeled
"dysfunctional" and I don't appreciate having my motives labeled
"ludicrous".
One of the important principles I have learned in recovery is the importance
of self-care and part of my self-care is that I simply do not voluntarily
subject myself to situations that I experience as uncomfortable. That
commitment to myself - to my own fundamental well-being - is more supportive
of my sobriety than forcing myself to go to a meeting could ever be.
I get a lot out of the emails and I feel a part of the SOS community that
way. Now for anybody who thinks that's not adequate and wants to jump in and
"correct" me I have this to say: Who are you to take my inventory? Who are
you to evaluate my sobriety and how I support it? Look to yourself. Live and
let live.
I spoke out in support of Paul (who first raised the issue of the hugs)
because I wanted him to know he wasn't alone and because I thought others
would like to have the simple INFORMATION that the ritual closing was a
stumbling block for some people. I did not engage in judgmentalism or put
downs of those who disagreed with me. I would appreciate the same courtesy
in return.
ellie again...
A postscript here to my most recent rather long email:
For the record I am NOT trying to change the custom of a meeting which I do
not attend. I have not the slightest interest in doing that. I was simply
conveying the information that I'm uncomfortable with the ritual ending and
that I choose not to attend meetings because of that. You can consider that
as material for a group conscience or completely ignore it as you like. I
shared that by way of trying to be supportive of Paul so that he would not
think he was alone in his discomfort. Now I want to respond to the person
who seemed to think that there was a suggestion on the table to have a RULE
that there be no hugging all all. Nothing could be further from the truth.
I, for one, certainly have no interest in a rule AGAINST hugging. Why would
I want to stop people from hugging who want to hug? I have a problem,
however, with a structured ending that actually INSTRUCTS people to close
with hugs so that everybody feels they have to hug everybody else.
fitz offers this long quote... found at http://www.humaniversity.nl/hugging.htm
"Analysis is the way of the mind, hugging is the way of the heart. The mind is the cause of all diseases, and the heart is the source of all healing."
Osho
(from: The Wild Geese and the Water #4, 1981)
Man needs to be needed. It is one of the most fundamental needs of human beings. Unless one is cared for, one starts dying. Unless one feels that one is significant to somebody, at least to somebody, one's whole life becomes insignificant. Hence love is the greatest therapy there is. The world needs therapy because the world is missing love. In a loving world no therapy will be needed at all; love will be enough, more than enough. Hugging is only a gesture of love, of warmth, of caring. The very feel of the warmth flowing from the other person melts many illnesses in you, melts the ice-like, cold ego. It makes you again a child.
The psychologists are now well aware of the fact that unless a child is hugged, kissed, he misses some nourishment. As the body needs food, the soul needs love. You can give to the child all the physical needs, all the physical comforts, but if hugging is missing, the child will not grow into a wholesome being. He will remain sad somewhere deep down, uncared for, neglected, ignored. He was nursed, but not mothered.
It has been observed that if a child is not hugged, he starts shrinking - he can even die - although everything else was provided for. As far as the body is concerned, every care was taken, but no love surrounded the child. He became isolated; he became disconnected from existence.
Love is our connection; love is our very root. As you breathe - for the body it is absolutely essential; stop breathing and you are no more - in the same way, love is the inner breath: the soul lives by loving.
Analysis won't do it. Wit and clarity, knowledge and scholarship won't do it. You can know all there is to know about therapy, you can become an expert, but if you don't know the art of love, you remain only on the surface of the miracle of therapy.
The moment you start feeling for the patient, for the one who is suffering... out of a hundred cases, ninety people are suffering because they have not been loved. If you start feeling the need of the patient for love, and if you can fulfil the need; there will be an almost magical change in the condition of the patient.
thanks everyone & thanks in particular ellie... i think sos is very likely to change its closing soon...
i loved the analogy to AA's God-talk and the crumminess of being forced to feel different because of not conforming to a "recovery culture" (or "cult")
i also like the admonition not to name-call or label each other
LH
ellie said... (about the addictionhelp@sbcglobal.net email group)
Hello, Larry. I notice with this email that the recipients are revealed. I
would rather you send it bcc the way you do the other list if you don't
mind. I would really rather not have my last name exposed like this.
Thank you! :-)
[[well, ellie... the bcc seems to not be an option in the thunderbird/mozilla email system... that is why the addictionhelp@sbcglobal.net email group e-notes reveal email addresses...
i'm not sure what to do about it...
1) try to move this to eudora (i don't think i could keep things straight if i tried to do both groups on outlook express)... note: thunderbird, outlook, and eudora are all email programs...
{BTW, "eudora" is named for eudora welty in honor of her most famous short story, "why i live at the post office" (http://art-bin.com/art/or_weltypostoff.html); the story is very rich... especially the voice tone of the speaker in the story... so very alive!}
2) give up on the second email group and just post everything controversial to the www.sostulsa.blogspot.com blog
3) other
from duaine...
Hi Larry;
Duaine M here:
I did get one of my posts on the Blog.
I sent it lots of times and used different address to do it but have sent two since and they didn't go through.
I've given up on the Blog as it set up now.
Here is one that I sent and it along the same lines of ellie f.
I agree with ellie f.
Here is one of my posts. I'll leave it up to you how you handle it because I'm don't know what gets through to the Blog.
[[you did get one post under the "SOS Tulsa" heading... also i copied that one to the "All about hugs at meetings." heading... hell, this is all very frustrating, for you and me and others... some have been able to post... there are about 10 comments under the "All about hugs at meetings." heading... as i said once, it is a nusiance that i have to approve all posts... ironically, i only get an email notice, not the actual text of the post, so i've just been saying "yes" to all]]
anyway, here is duaine's post
Duaine M here
I'm an outsider in this group.
It's still good to see the members of your group stand up and be heard.
I can see by some of the comments posted here that you as members want to be a part in your group and run it in a way that includes rather than excludes members. I think thats a healthy attitude. Members input is so important to SOS and having members be active in how the SOS meetings are handled is such a necessary part of SOS.
I also see why some may not want to bring these issues up at a meeting and face to face.
Sometimes distance may be needed to feel safe enough to speak out.
I feel I'm a strong person who will speak out regardless of any negative input from other members but I think I would have a difficult time of it in this group.
Even at a distance I'm having a difficult time of it.
Best to all of you who want to make the SOS Meeting yours and want to be part of it's future course.
I feel this is how SOS and it's members becomes strong.
PS; I still feel SOS is not a spin off of any other recovery group and stands on it's own.
We are the only true Support Group.
We provide a safe place where members can share what works and what doesn't work.
We are not a Program we are a Support Group.
from jeff r.
Good morning Larry!
I tried to post on the blog and again after entering a comment, I tried to sign in and it seems it lost what I said. Oh well, such is life.
I believe that a support group is meant to support each other. In any manner that occurs. A recovery support group faciliates recovery NOT just abstinence. I believe recovery is abstinence plus change.
In recovery support groups I have heard a great deal that I disagreed with, some that angered me and some that stung when said. I did not use this as an excuse to exclude myself or put myself above the other people. I did not let myself make excuses to allow me to not participate and change. Or try to make the people who had different beliefs change to accomodate me.
I have tried through logic, emotion, humor, sarcasm, instigation, you name it, to make my points and get people to think. They don't want my input. They prefer to stay the same and consider a comment on behavior or speech an attack on them. I am NOT refering to anyone in particular. It has happened more than once.
My perception is I am NOT helping anyone by being here and I am not being helped. So remove me. From both email lists.
I will still occasionally attend SOS meetings as they do offer something other groups do not.
But I am beginning to view SOS as a abstinence support group and NOT recovery support. The only priority is that of sobriety. I don't need more, I want more.
Good luck to everyone.
Jeff
as usual, i've copied all this to the blog
both tulsa sos groups have voted to delete the statement "let's close the meeting with 'hugs and no drugs' " from the closing format...
here is a report from the wed. group, followed by a bit of sarcasm by tommy m.
larry emailed as follows...
we also unanimously approved a motion to delete the last line of the the meeting format (i.e., the closing)... hence the meeting will end with the following paragraph...
We do not usually pray as a group at the end of our meetings, but we encourage everyone in the room to share with one another one-on-one or in informal groups after we close and to exchange hugs where appropriate. Let's end the meeting by giving ourselves a hand for being here to support and celebrate each other's sobriety.
(applause)…
Thank you. The meeting is adjourned. (or words to that effect)
to this tommy said...
OHhhhh Hell... Larry you can't put "applause" at the end of that statement...
Someone might be all pissed off and don't want to applaud.. Or they
Might not feel like going through all that formality... Lmao Tommy
tommy, if you want to add a zinger for me for not reproducing your comments directly here, knock yourself out... i do get a little cautious about fueling another political correctness imbroglio... (but not enough so to supress this cartoon)
(http://offthemarkcartoons.com/search-results/key/hugs/)
famous huggers... larry h., pam, jeff r.... others
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